I've noticed a change in the manual in regards to using LG TVs internal 1D LUTs:

> Note: There is inaccurate information provided in some LG calibration guides stating use of 1D LUTs within LG TVs should not be used, including stating a 1D LUT Unity/Bypass Upload causes issues. Such information is inaccurate, and can be ignored.

Is it now confirmed that 1D LUTs work on all support LG models, or does it apply only to more recent models?

As far as we are aware, there are no issues with any LGs and 1D LUTs going back to at least 2020 models, and likely before.
But you will need to test for yourself, which is obviously easy to do.

Steve

I tried it on the C1, and it gets close, but there is some mismatch in the results between applying the 1D LUT in the TV (3D set to unity) and applying it in ColourSpace.

Was expecting the measurements to be much closer.

Attached file: measurements.zip

As the LUT doesn't alter 'black' something look to be wrong there.
I can see no way that using Active LUT vs. LUT Upload could change black from having a red cast to having a green cast...

Steve

Using the latest enhancements with WebOS 23 or newer, you can use 1D LUT, but using 1D LUT doesn't have the same benefits on a WRGB panel (where the W sub-pixel is always on and one of the RGB is always off) as on an additive RGB display.

If you want more grayscale steps, you can add them and include them in the 33-Point 3D LUT generation.

However, when you use a 1D LUT, it will bypass even the SM WB values. If your panel is suffering from a luma boost from factory calibration, you will not be able to fix it using the method with custom Contrast/Color values.

Also, if it has a problem with near-black, it will be difficult to fix.

In such cases, manual adjustments of contrast/color/brightness will fix the problems before the large profiling of the 3D LUT.

Older LG TVs' processing (2020 or earlier) gave the picture a more digital look when using 1D LUT, which was why we were ignoring it.

Later, LG updated the video pipeline and processing, resolving those issues with newer TV models.

However, you have plenty of options and tools in ColourSpace to find the method that will provide you with a better final result in dE reports and visually.

This narrative has to stop.......


False. There is zero correlation between using the 1DLUT and WebOS 23. The only thing WebOS did was lock end users out of the full service menu where 2 point and 22 point SM controls exist. This is the sole reason the narrative switched from adjusting 2 point grayscale in the SM via user menu.

It is also false that the W sub pixel has 1DLUT deficiencies compared to traditional RGB additive displays. If you say otherwise, please provide sources. I personally prefer white papers.... but named individuals will suffice.


Adding more grayscale steps to a 3DLUT characterization does not equal improved grayscale. It sure does not mean such with the ColourSpace 3DLUT engine.


False. The 1DLUT that everyone has access to via API with LGE oleds does not implicitly bypass SM controls. You the user can force such if you so choose.

In case you were unaware, the 1DLUT values are derived from the SM grayscale controls AND user menu grayscale controls. Even if you upload custom 1DLUT values, touching any SM or User menu grayscale control after the upload will alter said 1DLUT values.


False. What is the source for this?


Near black issues can be caused by a host of items. Video pipeline conversions, lack of bit depth, and 1DLUT.... just to name a few. If there are any near black issues that are derived from the 1DLUT values, the best way to correct them is via altered 1DLUT values. 22 point user menu controls and/or 3DLUT color engines are far less effective. The 2.5 point control in the user menu impacts multiple steps, not just 2.5.... so you can make other stimuli levels worse just to fix one particular stimuli level. The 1DLUT gives you access to 1024 steps of adjustment. 3DLUT engines are not going to prioritize grayscale issues over the rest of the cube data. I currently, exclusively, use ColourSpace for 3DLUT generation I can say with confidence it definitely does not.


Correcting any issues explicit to the 1DLUT before handing off to any 3DLUT color engine is going to yield better results.


False. I have tested 2020 through 2025 units with the same methodology and one gen from another does not yield a more digital nor analog "look". There are quirks and behaviors between processing chipsets. But that is a completely different topic.


No they did not. Again, the 2020 through 2025 LGE oleds respond the same between each model year outside of chipset quirks and behaviors (e.g. A7 vs. A9 and/or A9 vs. A11).

Please don't have politics and bulls*** hinder providing valid and useful information.

How did you create your 1DLUT data? Via Legal, Extended or Full measurements?

Thanks for the inputs.

The attached measurements were taken in Extended mode with the generator outputting RGB444 16-235. Also tried other combinations, but this was the closest, yet still off. Having also played with the SM white (one point), I can say that setting the C1's 1D LUT to unity ignored the SM white, displaying the native cold 11000K tones.

My only explanation would be that there is some internal processing that is causing an offset. The white subpixel alone should not cause ActiveLUT vs 1D LUT differences, as both cases should be affected equally. On newer models it might work better.

Not sure if you have a typo, but 16-235 is Legal, not Extended.

But, as said, having a huge shift in colour tint for black is not a LUT issue, as at zero the LUT is unity.
I would look into that in isolation to the rest of the variations, as that my point to the issue.

Steve

Extended in the ColourSpace setting and 16-235 on the Murideo page (couldn't find any Extended there). No clipping so I guess it's sending the right signal?

I'll run more tests.

As Steve has pointed out, that is not extended. Set the Murideo to RGB 0-255, C1 video range to Limited and ColourSpace to Extended for patches. Try a Full 1DLUT and see if it is better than Extended.


That would qualify per my post as "You the user can force such if you so choose." If you at that point change the user menu 2 point controls and pull the 1dlut from your C1, you will qualify this part of my post: "Even if you upload custom 1DLUT values, touching any SM or User menu grayscale control after the upload will alter said 1DLUT values"


No, what your posted graphs show is mismatched video levels.

DNice
Hahaha, are you saying that adjusting the SM white balance after uploading a 1D LUT actually works? And that if you download the LUT back to your PC, it's different from the one you uploaded because LG multiplies the two? Interesting—that hasn't been my experience at all. In my practice, once a 1D LUT is uploaded, any adjustments made in the SM work in real-time, but everything reverts the moment you exit the Service Menu.

Currently playing with a 55C5 on WebOS version 10.3.0-1902. Proceedure.....

Cinema Mode
Warm 40 Color Temp
Extract Original Calibrated 1DLUT
Access SM
Gains for 2pt Warm all changed to 192
Exit SM
Extract SM Gain Adjusted Calibrated 1DLUT

I have tested this on units from 2020 thru the unreleased 2026 models. Each unit does the exactly what I described. What is your methodology?

1DLUT Original

1DLUT Altered

DNice
55CX
FMM
Calman DDC reset/Upload Unity 1DLUT(.dcl) by Device Control
User menu is locked
Access SM
Adjust Gains arbitrarily to see color temperature changes
Exit SM
Panel color temperature returns to around 10000K

So..... you are not even looking at the lut file after you change values. Do exactly what I did, and you will see the change.... exactly how I provided screen grabs of the changes. Also, why is your user menu locked?