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Timeout of LG C9's calibration mode transition in HDR mode [WIBNI]

 
Author janos666
ZRO
Male
#1 | Posted: 24 Nov 2023 04:12 
Please increase the timeout of ColourSpace's "LG TV" device control. Everything works smoothly in SDR but HDR is very tricky with the current timeout. The TV usually takes significantly longer to transition into "Calibration mode" compared to SDR (even though ColourSpace throws a "failed to select desired picture mode" error message, the TV does switch into the selected display mode and/or does indeed transition to "Calibration mode" but only after ColourSpace already gave up on it - fairly quickly). I have to power-cycle the TV and/or repeatedly switch between SDR and HDR inputs a few times before I can finally upload a LUT (either 1D or 3D) to an HDR picture mode of the TV (when ColourSpace happens not to throw an error, it works, the LUT is uploaded and active, so it looks like it's only a question of how long ColourSpace is willing to wait). By the way, the TV is on the latest official firmware and my WLAN has reasonably low and stable latency (<25ms with long ping test between the laptop and TV).

Author Steve

INF
Male
#2 | Posted: 24 Nov 2023 09:09 
That does sound like an issue with your network, or we would have had similar reports from other users.
No other users has reported any such issue.
Please try using a cable network connection to verify, and let us know the result.

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author janos666
ZRO
Male
#3 | Posted: 24 Nov 2023 12:33 
Since it never happens in SDR (at least I can't recall if it ever did) but often happens in HDR (>>50% of the time), it seems clear to me that it's not the network. (I can't easily wire them up for a test. Only a fiber cable comes into this room and I would also need a USB->ethernet adapter for the laptop.)
Maybe it's limited to certain revisions of this hardware generation. When I initiate "Cal. On" in HDR, it always takes a few seconds for the TV to turn off the PQ/gamma tone-mapping and ColourSpace throws an error between these moments (click and visible change).
I think relatively few people experiment with uploading LUTs to LG WOLED TV HDR slots since it's not generally recommended. This is off-topic here but I wasn't yet successful in creating a 3DLUT for HDR with ColourSpace that's better than the factory one. (I am currently experimenting with LUTs generated by another software and only use ColourSpace to upload those. I mean, I try... But I also tried uploading ColourSpace-generated LUTs with a similar success rate.)

Author Steve

INF
Male
#4 | Posted: 24 Nov 2023 14:20 
It may indeed be a HDR operation issue with the TV, but we really need the LAN test done to verify.

And trying to use LUTs for HDR with LG TVs tend to fail for two reasons.
1) The LG is very unstable at hight brightness.
2) The white pixel causes gamut compression as brightness increases.

Both make profiling the issue, not the actual LUT generation.

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author janos666
ZRO
Male
#5 | Posted: 25 Nov 2023 21:35 
I think I figured out what is very rare about my situation. It's not WiFi but how I use this C9 at home: I always feed it with 119.88 or 100.00 Hz input in VRR mode (nVidia cards always keep the display in VRR mode even if Gsync is enabled for full-screen apps only - and I think that's actually convenient for multiple reasons) and the input is labeled as "PC" (this latter setting unlocks 4:4:4 presentation). I noticed that even the OSD is notably slower when I use this input. So I switched over to the built-in media player (opened an HDR10 clip and paused it) and the 3DLUT upload succeded instantly two times in a row. I switched back to "PC" input and it failed several times in a row (with Calibration Mode still triggering a few seconds after ColourSpace threw an error). This would also explain why I never had issues uploading LUTs into LG WOLED TVs over WiFi that were fed from a DeckLink card with 2160p25 and not weren't switched to "PC" label either (4:4:4 would be nice in those cases as well but it seems to reduce the overall precision of the internal processing, at least on most LG TVs I tested so far).

However, before you fat-finger this as "CLOSED / FIXED / WONTFIX", I personally consider this as a workaround only, not a real FIX. I am still asking for a somewhat longer timeout. Especially since this could be a random occurrence at this point (switching things back and forth sometimes helped to succeed even while "PC" was the active input during the upload attempts). Also, why shouldn't I be able to access devices over VPN, for example (which might add considerable lag) or laggy WiFi (or while "PC" is selected in this unique case)... if there is no real, significant downside to it...?

Author Steve

INF
Male
#6 | Posted: 26 Nov 2023 10:44 
The issue is it's never certain what adding extra delay will do for other operations - SDR calibration for example.
But, as a test, we will add an increased time-out for the next ColourSpace release, and C9 users, including yourself, will need to test and verify the operation.
We do not presently have access to a C9 LG.

Again, having a LAN test would be of real help in identifying the underlaying issue.

Steve
Steve Shaw
Mob Boss at Light Illusion

Author janos666
ZRO
Male
#7 | Posted: 16 Dec 2023 10:09 
Steve:
But, as a test, we will add an increased time-out for the next ColourSpace release

Thank you!

While at it, I would also ask you to unlock the option to upload a 3DLUT into the DolbyVision SDR 3DLUT slot. (I know DV has a single SDR slot only but I think that's active for DV anyway, so it can be used for Rec2020 PQ DV content. Correct me if I am wrong.)
Reason: Once I figured out how to create a good 3DLUT for HDR (*), I wish to upload a 'Rec2020 gamma 2.2' 3DLUT into that DV SDR slot and fill the DolbyVision config file with Rec2020 coordinates and gamma 2.2 parameters, so the 3DLUT handles the native->Rec2020 mapping instead of the Dolby chip/blob (thus allowing for volumetric corrections and also a better matching between HDR10/HLG and DV modes - at least in theory).

* I think there might be some LG hardware/firmware issues with HDR on my C9 because I end up with similar problems at the end result (color tint observed on the near-black range) after running Calman's recommended HDR workflow (so all measurements taking place in "calibration mode" where the PQ->gamma conversion is disabled) and after closely replicating that workflow (so all measurements taking place in "calibration mode", thus in gamma space) with any different CMS I tried. So the solution might be taking the measurements (at least the volumetric profiling step for the 3DLUT creation) in PQ space rather than gamma space (so outside "calibration mode"), even if the 1DLUT might get optionally pre-calibrated in gamma space (because no CMS I know allows targeting PQ for multi-step iterative 1DLUT calibration, save for ColourSpace's "augmented profile" 2-step option).

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 Timeout of LG C9's calibration mode transition in HDR mode [WIBNI]

 

 
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